Why the Anomosity towards USA

ikorrellim: Have no fear. The right wingers are on their way to self destruction. Unfortunately, in the meantime, Bushie is pounding the economy down the rat hole. Americans will overwhelmingly turn against the Right in the next election. Our economy, and that of the world, will be in tough shape. Donerail

49% of America is antagonistic towards Bush and his administration. Actually, more than that...at least 2% voted for Bush because they were "afraid" of another attack...which, if you listened...they sure did point out it out that "if we voted the wrong way, that we would have another attack worse than 9/11"...Cheney's words.

I noticed that now Bush is telling Tommy Thompson to "cool it" about terrorism and another attack...Funny, we were on the very verge on another attack before November, now First of December...we are OK?

I despise this administration and plan to do everything in my power to make sure that the senators/representatives up for election in 2006 (republicans) lose and that in 2008, we will take back our country from these neo-cons who have just about ruined us here at home and overseas...

I read in the paper that when Bush was in Columbia...there was a plot against his life...however, think if he was gone...We'd have to put up with Cheney/Hastert...What is worse?

SalB, are you by any chance related to uneleveblahblahblah ? Just curious.

CRC

js, If Americans want to hear opinions other than their own, we have satellite tv and radio, BBC news, CNN Europe and even TV5 from France. There is also the Internet where any news source online is available. The fact is that at least 51% of Americans choose to believe what they are fed on Fox News and right wing radio talk shows. It only takes 51% to win an election and that is what happened.

This is another question that was posted over a year ago and it has all pretty much been said, although another opinion (and a reasoned one) is always welcome.

Folks, it might be nice to post some newer and more relevant questions rather than beating dead horses. Just a suggestion!

js: The world needs to recognize that we have a cowboy in the White House. Another factor is that our attention span is incredibly short and we want instant gratification on every possible occasion. Donerail

I am a British person living in France and believe I can "shed some light" on the current attitudes between the French and the US. Actually it is not so much the French and US, but most of Europe and the US.

I do not live in the US and thus am unaware of the information being given in e.g. news, TV, etc. However, the European leaders such as Tony Blair do not have the widespread support for their nations population that may be being presented in the US. The example of Tony Blair helps illustrate the point. He has a "special relationship" with Mr. Bush. Tony Blair has that relationship, not the British people. In fact his "special relationship" is quite unpopular (even with politicians in his own party) as many feel that the UK has become a puppet for the UK - sort of "what GW says the UK does".

The same is true of most European countries (and Australia) we see Mr. Bush referring to as "friends" so often - he may have the support of the leaders but not their populations.

In the case of France (and Germany), the situation was aggravated by the US and UK politicians "mis-quoting" what the French politicians were actually saying. The French were saying e.g. "we will not xxx unless yyyy" and the UK and US were quoting this as "we will not xxx" and totally omitting the "unless" bit. It is not surprising that this somewhat annoyed the French population.

It is also a factor that France believed the war was not necessary at that time it was started. France (and others) have subsequently been proved right, yet none of those who were so critical of them had had the strength of character to apologise or even acknowledge the fact.

One thing that does surprise me living here is that the bulk of the antagonism is directed towards Mr. Bush rather than America in general in the UK seems to escape.

MyFarSide: Let me know and we can plan to go to LaFrance together. We could rent a Harley and set ourselves free. Donerail

"is it a good idea to go back to France alone"

Did you want to say : Is it safe to go to France alone ?
Absolutely ! In fact, it depends of the region/department that you are going to visit. Don't idealize France too much, French are sometimes a bit agressive (I hate driving in Paris for example, I prefer subway/underground).

And your French is probably better than my English.
If you got the basic (Bonjour, Au revoir, Merci, S'il vous plait) you won't have any problems

I have to say that I never heard about this singer while I was in La France.....while there, I spoke mostly english because my french is not that great yet! everyone went out of their way to help me out when I told them I didn't speak french very well, everybody, I didn't meet one mean person at all!!...they do hate Bush, not doubt about it.
I have a question for you guys...I am planning on going back to France next year, however, after the break up between me and my ex french boyfriend I have nobody to visit or to hang out with, is it a good idea to go back to France alone? I really loved it there and I really want to go back really bad!!..HELP!!!!

Saez is a French singer...
He has a "special reputation" (anti-american, anti-capitalist, etc...)

Saez? What???? Donerail

lhommeamericain : No, that's wrong, he's just hating the US government, not the citizens

LaVieilleBranche: I think that is supposed to be a floating museum. Perhaps the Intrepid. Supposedly funded by private donations. We are gearing up for the DNC here in Boston. It is going to be a blast. The Republicans have all hauled ass out of town. Donerail

donerail: come to NYC and see the MASSIVE warship parked on the Hudson River. It's the floating airport kind of warship, the kind that send/lands fighter jets. The fighter jets are on the plane too, including this sneaky looking black jet that is supposedly the fastest in the world? I forget the name of this boat (it's on the side of the ship) but it's docked here. Talk about spending money...come look at that big monstrosity that floats...

LaVieilleBranche: You are right. I will have to formulate a different analogy. I am concerned, though. crc95 observes that I am obsessing on the poor devil. Speaking of obsessing, I saw a boat parade of brand new Coast Guard vessels being delivered here for the convention. A convoy of five 25 footers powered by twin 200HP outboards. They will have less than a week to familiarize themselves with the nuances of Boston Harbor. We can really pound money down the rat hole when we have a mind to do so. Donerail

donerail: Monty Python skits and characters were quite witty and funny. AF is just pathetic.

Sal: It is true that people get along better than governments. It has to be the egos of the leaders.
"Donerail, of course there is one ! Don't you remember : Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen. Football's still the roughest thing on campus, And the kids here still respect the college dean."
Crc95: We don't wear boots, despite what you see on that reality show. I think you are thinking of Oklahoma State University. They are the hicks And I hear rugby is pretty rough here at OU. And yes, we do respect the deans. They control our fate.

On a serious note, Is it true that Damien Saez loathes America? I haven't really read his lyrics but from what I hear, he hates Americans. Anyone know?

crc95: He reminds me of Monty Python characters. I can't help obsessing. Donerail

you can tell how Donerail is definitely NOT obsessed by AF

CRC

donerail, Are you being mean again??

SalB: I also heard that Amero-franc got a Doctorate from there. I think it was in Literature or Philosophy. I understand they have barbed wire to protect the non-football playing populace. Donerail

Actually, gentlemen, the University of Oklahoma has an excellent school of art. It isn't all football (and no, I am not from OK and have only been there a couple times). I did know an art professor who graduated from OK and he was excellent and a very pleasant person. He was also a genuine Okie from Muskogee!

Donerail, of course there is one ! Don't you remember : Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear; Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen. Football's still the roughest thing on campus, And the kids here still respect the college dean.

lol

CRC

Ihommeamerican: I agree with SalB and ManuNice, on all my travels to France the French have been very gracious. I feel more safe and welcome there than I do most places over here. BTW, I wasn't aware that there is a university in Oklahoma. Donerail

I'm 33, I did live 31 years in France and 2 years in USA, and even if I can't speak for all my people, I seriously doubt on what happend on the story that describe l'hommeamericain, not because we are great people or whatsoever, but just for a simple reason: MOST FRENCH DON'T CARE...! Yes sir, I do care because I can speak english and I did travel alot, but I can tell you that between the problemes that our two nation encounter, the Americans where bashing the french 100 times more than the opposite, simply because again, most of the people don't care!!! So the story that french spit on people as soon as they speak english is a little bit too much and seriously I can't see that happenning. (maybe it was Irak or Taliban student??? lol) I don't say it is impossible because there twisted f**k everywhere, but again I don't think it happened, and I never witness anything like that, not even close!!!!

lhommeamericain, I don't dispute what happened to your friend, but we've been to France several times since the big brouhaha and we do speak American English in public and we have never had anyone be unkind to us in any way. Admittedly, we try to speak French when we're speaking to French people, but they can tell my our accent we are American and usually start speaking English to us right away. They have all been friendly and helpful.

I think bad things happen to lots of people both in this country and in other countries but it's not a good idea to blame an entire country (or continent) for one incident. The majority of Europeans react to Americans they meet as individuals. They don't blame them for the decisions their government makes. Hopefully, we can do the same in return. Generally, people get along better than governments.

Just thought I would commend you on your noticing that Americans treat France and the rest of Europe as their amusement park where everyone speaks a "funny" language until the Americans need something.
However, I must disagree to a point on your claim that Europeans hate Americans. I have a friend who was an exchange student in Spain and traveled to Paris with a group of friends. While there, she was cursed at and spit upon simply because she was American and speaking English with her friends. I have to say that I have never seen anyone belittle a French-exchange student at my university (University of Oklahoma Boomer Sooner), but I have seen people go out of their way to help foreign exchange students. But just because I see it, doesn't make it all true.

LaVieilleBranche: I do hope that you are enjoying La France. I tried to get into Easter Services at Notre Dame but the crowds were just too much. We have never seen so many people in Paris. I will try to educate amero-franc the best I can until your return. I can't do the same with ikorrellim as I believe she is hopeless. But maybe if she prays for me I will be able to do so. Donerail

ikorrellim: When are you going to pray for me? Donerail

Everybody have a very nice Easter. I'm getting ready to go to France and don't know if I'll have time to stop in here before I leave.

ikorrellim:

that is the first positive thing you said to anybody in these forums in a long time. Maybe there is hope for you, yet.

No, I would never try and impress you..or anyone for that matter...As I stated in earlier post, I will pray for you...that is about the best thing that I can say or do on your behalf...

LV-B:

I was going to respond to your remarks, however, I have decided that I will just pray for you...

ikorrellim: is your typing speed supposed to impress me? so be a good secretary and crawl back into your cubicle.

ikorrellim:

I think it is YOU who need to evaluate your reasons for coming to this forum. you seem to have NOTHING good to say about Europe, so why are you in a forum promoting France? to belittle Europeans? To insult them? To flaunt your (supposed) American superiority?

Since you seem to prefer the racist web site www.f***france.com maybe you should just stay on that site. You've already said that their views are more to your way of thinking.

I've been to the south many times. I've met thousands of kind, well mannered, educated people (including the SC senators). You're the first rude, fanatical, "in-your-face" southerner I've ever met. New Yorkers are more polite than you. Guess there's still a first for everything.

By the way, did you ever find your French male hook-up? Just curious...
http://www.france.com/mb/messageview.cfm?catid=19&threadid=235

(pardon me while I laugh the hypocracy of it all)


I know somebody with a personality/attitude very similar to yours, and she was diagnosed as bipolar. Maybe some meds might help you.

LV-B:

correction: does not agree with him sans does not agree with home...(typo)...94WPM does cause errors...

LaV-B:

Another point, everyone on this forum has a RIGHT (I think we still have that freedom) to express themselves and voice their opinion...Just because you do NOT agree with what someone else expresses does NOT give you the right to dismiss their views as ..."nasty and hateful" remarks. Those words are cousins to Donerail's favorite words when someone does not agree with home..."uneducated" and "ignorant"... Perhaps you and Donerail both need to examine the true underlying reasons why the two of you elect to partipate in these forums...

VB:

You do a great job of posting nasty and hateful words yourself...especially when you and Donerail team up together...There's safety in numbers?

ikorrelim: the only thing frankessary is "on to" as you put it, is DRUGS, for posting such hateful and nasty words, that have NOTHING to do with the topic in this thread.

Frankessary:

I do believe that you're on to something...

Amero-Franc: I do hope you are learning something from all of this. God knows that your spelling and syntax still needs a lot of help. Talking about Ireland is really not the subject of this thread, but you wanted an example of how "the Church" was not exactly beneficial for the economy of Ireland. Try this: "the Church" told its flock not to practice birth control. People ended up having more kids than they could afford and they and the economy suffered as a result. The French, on the otherhand, (since the Revolution) were more open about paying just lip service to the nonsense that religion sometimes (note the word is "sometimes" and not "all" times) proscibes. Donerail

donerail,

I'm sure it was great poetry and your syntax was probably perfect. But it was just a buch a clichés. Please explain how the church in Irland hurt the economics of the country. Look if this is going to be a logical forum then you can't just put up a bunch of statments. You have to explain how they were detrimental to the economy. otherwise this just becomes one of those "Ego-Forums." Where they don't do anything, but relieve them selfs of their opinions and rages.

Most of the things latly that the Vatican has been telling to politiciens has been more along the lines of banning gay marrage and stopping Abortion. These things do not have a direct affect on the economy (although they do have a large indirect affect). What are you trying to say?

So far I'm not really disagreeing with you're statement, because that's all it was and one can't really say much about that.

Amero-Franc: You are improving. My point about Ireland was that the Irish decided to concentrate on investing in education to improve what was a very impoverished country. I didn't say that there was a Church of Ireland. What I implied was that historically "the Church" (meaning the Catholic Church) had a very strong role in the political structure of Ireland. And it wasn't terribly effective in terms of economics. Rather than hoping for miracles, the Irish invested in education and tourism. And they didn't waste much money on a military. They refused the temptation to build up a military defense against Great Britain. That collective wisdom has been paying the Irish people great dividends. Donerail

Donerail,

Sir,

Then explain what you were talking about instead of all those Clichés.

Something about cutting defense spending and The church is no the answer to the Governments needs.

Explain what you are talking about. And how that relates to this conversation. Like I said there is no chuch of Irland like there is a church of England and who externaially has been threatening them that they would need a massive army?

LaVieilleBranche: I think frankessary found the Forum because he was perhaps looking for quality products - cars or home products. Where else would you find these but in Europe?

Amero-Franc: You're drifting again. All I can say is that your reading skills are on a par with your spelling skills. I ask that you re-read my posts. My spelling, syntax, and sentence structure are all generally excellent. So re-read my post and try to generate a coherent question. Donerail

frankessary: did you see the forum topic? everybody here is trying to act civil and honestly answer ikorrellim's question...that she asked without malice, i might add...

frankessary: if all you want to do is preach your hatred of all things european, then go to another forum, this isn't the right one for you.

Donerail,

What are you talking about "That coupled with a realization that The Church wasn't the answer to their needs " (speaking of Irland) There is no Chuch of Irland. Irland is largly Catholic. The head of the church is in the Vatican not Dublin.

Also, what do you mean defence spending? Besides internally when was the last time anyone threatened millitary action against Irland? Great Brittian is Irland's lightning rod, if you know what I mean. (meaning that they are surrounded by the UK.)

Frankessary: The Irish economy took off because it pumped more of its GNP into education than any other nation on earth starting in the sixties and seventies. That coupled with a realization that The Church wasn't the answer to their needs - nor was defense spending - but education and tourism was. There is a big price to pay for having a bellicose way of solving problems - whether internal or external. Think about it. Or I suppose you would have us use our nuclear arsenal and military might and go forth and conquer the world. You can't cope with economic competition, can you? You would be right at home if this was the Stone Age. LaVieilleBranche took so much time to enlighten Amero-Franc, now you are trying to undo all that good work. Donerail

Ikorrellim, I will try to answer your question. NO I WILL answer your question. First look at what Donerail and Gaston are saying. They say that France has seen many wars and that wars are not fun. I agree, but you must ask yourself WHY has France seen so many wars? It is because of the European way of thinking. Don't worry France will see more wars because they have a short foresight. They also play politics too much. Look at what Chriac has done. He had his hand in Saddam's pocket so far that he could not pull it out in time to get into the Iraqi war. Him and Putin and Schroeder. This kind of conduct has been going on in Europe since the beginning of Europe and that is why they continue having wars. Chriac wants to have a European Army. What a laugh. The Europeans will go along with him too because they want what they think is their place in leading the world. The countries of Europe are small countires whose time is all but past. The new powers will be China, The U.S. maybe Russia, and India. In their quest to be the big dogs on the porch Europe will start more wars. The politicians have been cheating the people of Europe for centuries. Look at the high taxes they pay (the people think that is normal). When a country like Ireland sees the light and lowers their taxes mainland Europe just has a fit because they know one day the people will wake up and see that lower taxes equal more jobs, a better standard of living for all, not just for the politicians. The Irish economy just took off when they lowered their taxes. The European politicians are afraid of losing their grip on the power over the people. Just as the Democrats in this country are afraid. In one word I can tell you why many Europeans do not like the U.S. JEALOUSY. Their system of government is all about control, control, control. One more thing. France's good buddy's, the Arabs are about to show France a thing or two about terrorism. France has been kissing the Arabs *** just to try to keep them in line and in return the Arabs put bombs under their rail lines. Hang on to your "Burrito" France.

amer-franc: thank you...you just proved my point.