The problems between France &USA is Old stuff

Is it safe to assume you want people to read the first four books of the NEW Testament since Jesus doesn't appear in the first four books of the Bible per se?

This world is in so much trouble,we don't have time to make philosophical comments like Voltaire or even Marx. Visions and dreams of world with no borders or religious strife and a brotherhood state just doesn't cut it anymore. All we ever really wanted was a world where people really cared about each other. Countries in Europe that tried some semblance of this ended up creating more bloodshed and anguish than the old regimes ever imagined. First we must let people keep their religious traditions, as long as they don't involve bloodshed and strife. Then look at what the great philosophers and religious leaders really said. Confucius said the "Golden Rule" back about 500 years before Christ was born. Buddha had a highly ethical philosophy. Even if you're not a believer, read the first four books of the Bible,see what Jesus really said, not what people say He said. All of us can get together, with complete disarmament and a real pledge to never go to war again. When I was a teenager we used to say , "what if they called a war and nobody came?" It sounds childish but what if all the military and non-military terrorist were to one day just through down their weapons and refuse to fight. I mean refuse to fight or shed blood for any reason. Jesus said to "Love your enemies." Love, don't hate. I just hope I will live to see the day when they really outlaw war,everyone in the entire world, outlaw war. Then do as we tell our children to do, share and share alike!

Other than history,what does the Catholic Church have to do with relations between France and the US? Just one comment, when I was really down and out,no place to spend the night with my disableed son I got no help from my own church(Russian Orthodox) nor The Salvation Army, no, it was the Catholic Church that paid for a motel room for us,gave us vouchers at the local diner and emotional support. Religious traditions are a hobby with me. Fine,how do we get France and the US on the same page. Let God decide who the good Christians and bad Christians are,The Orthodox Church doesn't endorse judging other people, of course I think my church is right, if I didn't, I wouldn't have converted to the Orthodox Church. The two countries I love most seem to be at opposite tables,why? French culture is beautiful,artistic,and the gleaning system is sensational. I'm proud to be an American,although I'm not proud of some of the things my government does. Maybe if Americans would register and vote things would change. Only about half of eligible voters even bother to register,most of these people are groups who are traditionaly democrats. People who refuse to vote have no business complaining.

I'm not quite sure what the the American Catholic church has to do with the the problems between America and France. I myself am Russian Orthodox. The Orthodox church is larger in France than in America. Still the subject is irrelevant. Now with the problems with Iran we seem to getting a little closer. What a shame it is that the potential of nuclear weapons might be the thing to get us together. Our two countries have so much in common. We owe our very existence to France. My last name is Gimbert, a famous name in France, but everyone thinks I'm saying Gilbert, when asked my name. Our oldest allies is France, ans yet it's amazing how little Americans know about France. I'd be will to be that that the same is true about France. You don't like Pres. Bus., the popular vote was very close,you know. The polls show that Bush is rapidly loosing popularity. If we had a parliamentary system, a new election would be called. As for the Catholic church in America, I think of those little altar boys molested by their priest, and the Bishops sending them to new parishes when he found out, to molest other little boys. These priest have been "forgiven" and weren't def locked, but rather sent to monasteries to repent I guess.

Your experience seems odd to me. We came from the northeast originally and the Catholic church has traditionally been Democratic, that is the church of the people; the church of the unions; the church that supports labor.

Here it isn't just my local parish; it's the Los Angeles area. The are several large dioceses and they pretty much all are the same. There are over 15 million people in these three dioceses and except for a few rogue parishes, i.e. the OLD Latin rebels, they are all pretty much Democrats.

As I said, they don't tell us how to vote but they do tell us we should vote. We also have very strong programs supporting women who choose to have their babies instead of having abortions. They offer support, both financial and psychological, including housing if they need it. They help the women find adoptive homes or if they choose, to raise the child. They have job programs and training and medical care, much of it voluntary. We also have a food kitchen where food is given out without question to anyone who asks.

It's a very supportive atmosphere. Obviously, they are against abortion but they don't just fight against it; they actually do something to help women who are between a rock and a hard place.

BTW, I'm not Catholic so I'm not advertising for them. I've just been very impressed by what they offer.

LVB, I am very glad that NJ voted for a good governor. Things that you say are very true about the Catholic hierarchy.
Sal B. I am so glad you are in a Parish that is different. You are very lucky that there is a different Catholic attitude where you are. I wish I was in that Parish. I have been an Usher for this Parish for the past 11 years, and sometimes, I wish I could just stop volunteering my effort.

SalB: I agree with you.

However, here, the Church supports Bush. In fact, the Church here supports ANY Republican, so long as that Republican is anti-choice. During the NJ Governor elections, the Catholic Church here a few months ago used Sunday Mass as a policital pulpit. Somebody (lay person) was allowed to speak to the entire congregation about the "evils" of abortion, stem cell research, etc. At the end of this, he then said that we should NOT vote for any politican who supports this. No mention was made of the environment, Iraq, Carl Rove, etc.

This is the Archdiocese of Newark (NJ).

Here, it is all about one issue..abortion. They even built a marble/limestone monument to the "unborn murdered children" next to the church door. For these people here, it IS a one issue election.

Guess what? the Democrats won here in NJ anyway, and we have a large Catholic population.

LVB, Don't know about your church but around here the Catholic church is adamantly against Bush. They haven't tried to tell us what to vote for, but they have told us we have a moral obligation to vote our conscience . . . and separately have made it quite clear they don't support much this administration has done. Abortion is miniscule compared to the disaster Bush has made of the economy, both here and abroad; he's responsible for the deaths of thousands and he's raping the environment. The church does not support any of this . . . vehemently does not support it.

You can't base your vote on one issue.

pug2: I have a friend who is a Russian Orthodox priest, and he says that Bush is a bad Christian.

danairozo: Don't you find it rather hypocritical that the Catholic Church would try to sabotage another Catholic's political aspirations? Especially when you consider that the Pope had released a pamphlet with "5 Reasons For A Just War" (or similar title)? In essence, the pamphlet stated that before going to war, a country must look at its reaons for doing so, and the reasons must satisify 5 criteria. If the 5 critera cannot be satisified, then the war would be considered an unjust war and should not be waged. For the American Catholic Church to support Bush because of abortion, while ignoring the unjust Iraq war shows the hypocracy of some clergy members. I would have reminded the priest about this.

SalB: To all those children living in poverty, those are Bush's "culture of life" kids that were born because Bush restricted access to proper birth control (Freedom of Consience Act) and seeks to overturn abortion rights.

I guess Bush doesn't care about what happens to them AFTER they're born.

I was doing some research last night on something entirely unrelated but just coincidentally discovered one place where the good old USofA comes in at Number One.

In the 17 industrialized countries, the US is first in . . . . the number of children living in poverty!

Hmm . . . I guess they could use all that free food dafodil was talking about. I hope dafodil will tell them where to find it.

We do have a food bank at our church and anyone who comes in and asks gets it without any questions. We are always having extra food drives because they are always running out of food. I'm pretty sure most of those people really do need the food and I'm sure they would love to know where it is being given away so easily so I hope dafodil enlightens us quickly. Most of them are working people who just don't earn enough to pay for food and housing both.

Hehe... I totally agree with your postings. So nice to see them. I didn't vote for Bush either, even though the local priest said, "you can't go to communion if you vote the Wrong way."

This is more an update than a reply. Europe and Americia are coming together over Iran. We all agree that Iran shouldn't be allowed to develop nueclear weapons. Even the very thought is terrifiying. In coment to a prevous coment, half of us Americans voted for Kerry. By popular vote, it was close. The electorior college works by a complecated system of votes. If you don't like Bush the you're with the majority of Americans. In our system of government, we can't call a new election and get a new goverment. Senate elections are coming up soon and here in New York State we're have our say. Sadly, onmly a little more than half the qualified citizens vote. There are far more democrates, according to polls, than republicans. For reasons I don't understand, a large number of democrates don't vote. If it's too cold, it's raining,snowing, or anything else that you can think of democrats don't vote.Republicans always vote, they will get out of bed with a 104 degree fever and vote. I did a research study on this not too long ago, and it's amazing. Everyone I talk to seems to dislike Bush and his policies. I live in a very conservative part of upstate New New York, no one seems to like Bush. New York has a Republican Governor and a majority of the state lower house, all moderates, not the "born again" crowld. I want to note after that remark that I have nothing against Baptist, I respect all people's beliefs. I'm Russian Orthodox, who we are is well known in France, in America most people don't seem to know much about us.

Dafodil(sp?):

You sound like an immigrant who came to America and got on Public Assistance. We do work hard for what we get. We are the greatest country in the world to live in (I have been aboard), BUT we work hard for what we have, monetarily.

All I can say is that you must be "on the dole." as welfare is commonly called. The government refers to "on the dole" as entitlements. Is that what you think? That everyone is entitled to free everything. You state, you get free food, free blankets, don't have to work hard for it. Where do you live? Northeast, Southeast, Middle America or Western state(s)?

pug: I didn't vote for Bush, either. However, I have NO problem stating the terrible things Bush has done. It is not criticism if what is said is the truth. Do you think that no Frenchman has ever criticized Chirac to me? As for radicals rioting in the streets, I am old enough to remember the 1960's, the riots in the urban areas, etc. France just took longer for its underclass to riot.

SalB: Let's not forget all those people in New York City living on church steps,in cardboard boxes or in the abandoned subway tunnels. Or the Walmart workers who need public assistance just to survive. The list goes on and on...

dafodil: You are the WORST person who has ever posted here. Did you ever graduate from elementary school???

Hey, dafodil . . .where can I get all that free food you're talking about. You mean I went to work every day for nothing? What a disappointment! I thought I had to pay for my food. Silly me . . .

BTW, all those people living under bridges in Los Angeles that I see every day. If they can have anything they want, why are they living under bridges, especially when it's raining like it is now? Perhaps you can share your information with them and all the other homeless and hungry here in America.

Who does pay for all this? Just curious.

I didn't vote for Bush. Even though that's true, I still feel uncomfortable about criticizing my leader of state to another country. This doesn't mean I agree with his policies. Even America doesn't have radicals rioting in the streets. The United States is divided about in half politically but because of an antiquated electoral college the real majority doesn't have a voice. Not all Americans are nice people. Neither are all Frenchmen. We didn't have enough problems with Iraq, now we have Iran. Unlike Iraq,which didn't have WMD's,Iran does. Will we ever have peace in this world? France is on board about Iran. If anything will bring our two countries, Iran will do it. It's still not too late for international nuclear disarmament.

AND THAT IS THE truth AMERICA is sO Great and awesome ITS very wonderful!Its true!

I love America and I love BUSH.Sure the government is a hard subject but I love America the People are so nice and carring and there realy are so many benifits from living in America All the free food and all the great communitys and all the fun things to do and all the greatest stores in all the world are in america everyone has a favorite store and America has it for them.The stuff is affordable and you can get anything you ever wanted in American stores and you dont have to work hard to get it.The people are friendly and everyone would do anything to help you out if you ever needed it/America would always be there for anyone who ever needed help just out of the kindness of their hearts like when they helped the jews just to be nice and was trying to help the Iraqis just to be nice.Americans are realy good hearted people and they dont deserve any criticism realy just love and support because they are realy truley loveable people.The USA should never be disrespected in any way decause all the good things they have done for the people and how good they realy do take care of their people.If your hungrey you get food and lots of cake if your cold you get as many blankets you need if you need housing they open community housing for you if you need anything they will give you more than you need everything else said is a LIE the USA is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and Im proud to be and American like I am an American no matter what Queen Elizabeth says they arecool nice carring loving people and deserve to be treated very good because they are good.I love the Queen But Im an American and Always will be and I love America I LOVE AMERICA more than any country in the worl because it is the BEST!No offence I love france too but america is so great and wonderful I m glad Im an American Everything is so great! HELP from silly criticism that leads to talking crap and nothing good sorry that is the wrong talk and negitive vibe we should be positive and keep the say good things and be nice and talk good positivly!Be nice stay optimistic and be nice please we all just need to get along forever in love.We should just be great friends and allied forever no more talk crap just because there is nothing better to do just say good things so we can enjoy the happiness the USA has realy given us without outer european influences.Im American I love everything About America its Awesome I get everything I want and need all the time I love America Its perfect.Youll love it if you lived it.Just give it a chance all politics aSIDE.PEACE.

pug: France, and the rest of the EU WAS right. Iraq had no WMD. However, do you think Bush cared? He invaded a sovereign nation under false pretexts, deposed their leader and took control of their natural resources.

Considernig all the scandals that are coming out of the White House administration right now, would you ever expect Bush to suddenly reverse course and care about Kyoto, or average people? He'd rather use the government to spy on you and your associations, communications and writings.

Bush is a loser and he doesn't care about anybody except wealthy Americans. Unlike you, I have NO problem calling Bush a dirtbag in a French forum. He is what he is.

As for the media, I had posted earlier that the media share much of the blame for french bashing and hatred. It feeds the media's profits to denigrate France, as Americans have big, spoiled egos and don't like to hear others tell them when they're wrong.